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E143 GUEST Dr Randall Bell discusses ways to thrive in spite of trauma

· Dr Randall Bell,trauma,mental health


Speaker 2 (00:37): 

The world is changing and things are becoming crazier bythe moment, but you can thrive and you can still experience happiness. If youlike this podcast, please click subscribe your likes and comments. Really help this podcast stay as a top iTunes podcast for more inspiration and happiness. Make sure you check out the website.  

Speaker 3 (01:03)

Well, I am Dr. Randall bell and, uh, I grew up in SouthernCalifornia and had in large ways a Ilic, uh, childhood, but I was born with acongenital heart defect and, um, and, uh, kind of forgot about it. After my heart surgery at age 11, got into a career where I studied disasters and met people, people that had been through some really big traumas, uh, with cases like the world trade center and, uh, everything else, uh, the 5 93 crash site. And I became very fascinated with the people behind the statistics and inadvertently, I kind of came to terms with my own trauma by, by really visiting with people that had been through some really horrible things. 

Speaker 4 (01:43): 

Uh, I'm so intrigued by this, this kind of work as apsychotherapist. Um, that being said, you know, one of the interesting thingsthat I hear comes up a lot. Um, and I don't know if it's just like a tool gratitude or what, but people will often say, you know, I'm having a bad day and then someone else having a worse thing or, you know, people I've got difficult thing going on in my life and people say, well, be grateful that you aren't block, you know? Um, and, and it's in, it's interesting to me how, um, you know, trauma, uh, tragedy, tragic events and grief loss, you know, those sorts of things. Um, I really think that in the moment they feel regardless of what they are, um, and then it's kind of the recovery that defines who we are, um, as people, I, what are your thoughts on that? Where, where do you think about that? What do you think about that? 

Speaker 3 (02:36): 

Well, I think you're right on the money because those kindof comments that, you know, get over it or toughen up butter cup, those arenot, those are not helpful, helpful comment. And, you know, I've been guilty of saying that to my own kids. So, uh, you know, we need to be heard, we need to be validated and everybody's trauma is valid. You know, one thing that might not bother you might crush my world and vice versa. And so, um, it's really important to listen to people and, uh, and meet people where they are because everybody's trauma is valid 

Speaker 4 (03:06): 

And, and so different. I mean, you know, and I, I really,I really do think that our, um, our upbringings kind of shape what our maximumlevel of burden is. You know what I mean? Um, my mom used to always say something to me. Um, when I was a kid, she, you would always say, God, God, won't give you more than you can bear. And, um, I, I always found that to be an interesting phrase, like, and, and I don't know if it means that you'll have the tools and resources that what you're go, what you're going through, or if you won't be given more than you can bear, because I think some of the things that people like nine 11 survivors have been through and stuff, and, um, that seems like a little bit beyond my maximum, you know, but, but maybe the human body is surprising. 

Speaker 3 (03:48): 

I think we are resilient, but I would agree with you verymuch that, you know, sometimes we get things that are just unbearable. Um, andI, I don't know who made up, uh, you know, I, I, I'm not one to be able to speak for what God, uh, uh, feels about it. Um, but I, I looking at from things from my situation and the people I've met, some things are just absolutely overwhelming and unbearable. And I think we need to respect that. I mean, you know, I've worked on cases like, uh, the Sandy hook, school shooting or the pulse nightclub mass shooting, those are just horrific and they're they're frankly. So off the scale, um, that it puts people through really unbearable grief. And I think we, again, need to really respect that reality and not dismiss it or minimize it. And 

Speaker 4 (04:35)

So, so talk to me about how you kind of help peoplethrough some of, of these, uh, some of these traumas. And one of theinteresting things, I actually have a case right now as a psychotherapist where, uh, the sibling went through the completely tragic utterly unimaginable event. Um, and the sibling is now dealing with kind of the trauma of all of that. Um, so, so how do you help people through these kinds of life experiences? And also, I wanna, after that, I wanna spend a little bit of time and talk about the, the, um, the idea that we're all, we've all kind of been for the past year and a half in like some level of fight or flight that's not ending so, yeah. Uh, maybe we can talk a little bit about that too, but how, how do you help people in, um, you know, kind of immediately following, uh, you know, finger pointable events? 

Speaker 3 (05:34): 

Yeah. I, I mean, I, in terms of perspective, I, I mean,you're, you're an expert in your field and I am not, and I'm a sociologist. I,I more have connected with people that have been through horrific, uh, traumas, but I'm not a trauma coach and, you know, uh, but what I've researched from really brilliant people who have done an enormous amount of, uh, study in this area is that there's, uh, basically 15 steps of trauma recovery. And so in my book, posttraumatic thriving, I, I there's one chapter for each one of these stages. It starts out with shock. And the, the first thing is to really understand the, the physiological thing that we're going through with the fight flight freeze response, and really what's going on when we go into shock, that is nature's way of protecting us. It's not a bad thing, it's a good thing because it pro protect, uh, it protects us and we really need to, you know, visit that and, and go through all the stages of grief, whether it be denial, bargaining, uh, anger, these are all normal emotions that it should be expected. 

Speaker 3 (06:35): 

So, uh, and normally people kind of land on depressiononce they've kind of, you know, gone through some really horrific trauma. Andagain, that's completely normal. It's totally okay. Um, but if we're stuck for two or three months, uh, more than two or three months, we really need to seek professional help because we shouldn't remain in that state, you know, uh, indefinitely. So my approach is to, uh, you know, identify all these stages and, and acknowledge them for what they are. They're all healthy, they're all normal. There's nothing to feel ashamed about. And you move from what I call the dive stage into the survive stage, where you get back on your feet. Um, and then ultimately I've been focused on the thrive stage, which is where people not only get back on their feet, but they then do something really remarkable. And, um, it's more than bouncing back, it's really blasting off. So that's the big picture of what I go through in, uh, in, in the book. And then, and of course, I've got a number of very practical tips, which I'm having to share, uh, in terms of how we kind of get back on our feet and how we really kind of, uh, uh, use the energy from the trauma to do something really big. 

Speaker 4 (07:47): 

Oh, so many things. Um, I definitely want you to share thetips, but prior to that, as you were talking, a couple of things, um, that werecoming to mind, the first one is, you know, when we look at the traditional five stages, you know, grief and loss recovery, um, you know, one of the important things that I think we forget is that it's not linear, you know, we can bounce back and forth through these. And, um, even, you know, months later can have something that kind of puts us back into one of those spots. And I see this often when people have been through a trauma and then they have, have to appear at court six months later, or a year later or whatever. And then it's like, Hey, they're right back into the angry phase or the denial phase or whatever. And so I think it's important. And you kind of touched on this is that, you know, a story spoken is the path to healing. And I think that, you know, for so long, it was taboo to, to seek help, want to be in contact with, are you there? 

Speaker 3 (09:17): 

Yeah. You, yeah, you would cut out. I'm sorry. I missedthe second part of it. Um, but I got the gist of it. Uh, I, as far as sharingyour story, that really resonates one of the principles of fact. It's very first principle I talk about in the book is that trauma recovery is not a solo, uh, exercise. You gotta reach out to other people and you've got to accept help. And the exercise, what I call it. And I learned this in San Quentin prison, as a volunteer up there is what we call sitting in the fire and sitting with somebody that you trust and really sharing your story completely. I ideally, it's a fair therapist because therapists, as you know, um, don't, you know, have licenses that they lose if they share, you know, the information and they know how to respond appropriately, rather than your best friend who might start launching into anecdotal advice, that can be very harmful. So you gotta sit in the fire and tell your story. And that is really one in terms of trauma recovery. 

Speaker 4 (10:16): 

Um, you know, and one of the things that I think about as you'retalking, even in spite of the fact that, you know, therapy isn't as taboo as itused to be. I, I think about certain, certain traumatic situations where people feel a lot of shame or embarrassed. And one of them that comes to mind is abortions. You know, where there's been so much, uh, opinion surrounding it, or shame or guilt surrounding it, that some of those voices stay silent for lifetimes and the ways in which those start to bleed out psycho somatically in everyday life, you know? 

Speaker 3 (10:50): 

Yeah. Yeah. And, and there's a big difference betweenshame and guilt shame is where something happened to us of which, you know, we,we had no responsibility in it. Like for example, I felt shame about, you know, having heart surgery as a kid, I was just born with that Guild is where we did something wrong. And that's something, you know, for people that make their own decisions about. But, um, but you know, it, it certainly in the prisons and the homeless shelters where I volunteered, you know, shame is a big thing where people grow up in families with not enough money and that can be very traumatizing or dad's, you know, my dad was in prison. That was remarkably embarrassing. Well, the, the child had nothing to do with that. Uh, you know, Guild is where we did something wrong and I'm not in a position to judge anybody's decisions. 

Speaker 3 (11:31): 

Um, but I can say either way, the first step is what wecall sitting in the fire and talking about it. And, and then the second thingis, um, the deep breathing grounding exercises, those are profoundly helpful. There's over 12 studies that have come outta Harvard university with Dr. Sarah Lazar, uh, out of, uh, Harvard, Harvard medical school that simply deep breathing exercises, resets that, you know, sympathetic Paray sympathetic nervous system, uh, and, and really creates a lot of healing. So you can call it yoga, you can call it meditation, you know, you can call anything you want. Uh, we call it grounding, but deep breathing exercises while very simple are profoundly health in the healing process. 

Speaker 4 (12:14): 

So I think, I think this is something that I've been kindof, um, working through a lot as a psychotherapist and somebody with anincredibly metaphysical spiritual podcast. Um, that's rooted in these ideas of, um, happiness. You know, I'm starting to be very careful with my own language because I think that sometimes, and, and you touched on this, you know, you call it grounding. I think sometimes, um, people can be fearful to try a certain methodology that can be healing because of the associations of the terminology, you know? Um, and so really at its core, um, when, when it comes to breathing, I mean, one of the most spectacular things is that it is our life force. No, my matter how you look at it without it, you're not living right. yeah. So, I mean, I think, I think that that's a, a, you know, just at its most fundamental and, and if we just look at what happens to the human body in stressful situations or fight or flight freeze situations, one of the first things that changes is our breathing, um, whether we're holding it, it's rapid, you know, whether it's very calm. 

Speaker 4 (13:18): 

And I know for me personally, um, it, it's interesting,uh, most of the listeners on this podcast know that I'm an aviator in theprocess of becoming a licensed pilot. And, uh, you know, I was sent out on a solo. My body did when it started getting turbulent. Once I started rapidly economi, you know, not, not in control and so to, to ground while very not grounded. Um, but to tap into that space of, Hey, this is something that I have control over, have control over it by butt, by slowing my breathing, by being mindful of my breath, I can actually calm my entire nerve, my system down and do. Um, so it's, it's really a profound tool. I'm glad that, 

Speaker 3 (13:57): 

Yeah, you're, uh, I'm so glad you shared that becausethat's a nervous situations or feel anxiety as few as six deep breaths willmeasurably change, uh, lower our blood pressure. And I actually have a blood pressure cuff, and I've tried this many times in and always works. Deep breathing is again, very simple people forget about it. And sometimes because it's simple, we, we dismiss it because it can't be that effective. It's that simple. It is that powerful. And, uh, six breast, 10 breasts really will literally measure dramatically lower blood pressure. We gotta keep that in mind as we go through this thing we call life. 

Speaker 4 (14:37): 

I, I always tell my couples. I say, if you guys wannafight, go ahead and do it, but do it after five deep breaths.  

Speaker 3 (14:45): 

Speaker 4 (14:45): 

Like that. It's interesting how after five deep breaths,you're kind of in a space where it's like, ah, yeah, I don't really, I don'tthink I really wanna argue about that anymore. um, and, uh, you know, another, another really powerful one is the alternate nostril breathing. I don't know if you guys practiced, uh, that through the different things that you do, but, um, that's really powerful too. Another thing that you had kind of hinted at, which I, I find, um, to be a, a great resource when I'm working with people that have dealt with some sort of loss or tragedy is, um, creating legacy. And I know you didn't express it this way, you expressed it as, as thriving after the event. But, um, you know, I think if, if, if the event isn't for not, if there's something that comes of it and leg, see, doesn't have to be a television show or a movie, you know, it could be something very small, but if there is something that is, that is associated with in memorandum or in memorandum of the experience or in memorandum of overcoming the experience or whatever, some type of legacy tied to it, to where it wasn't for not, I think that could be powerful too. 

Speaker 4 (15:52): 

What are your thoughts on that? 

Speaker 3 (15:54): 

Uh, yeah, I, I agree. Legacy's a big, big deal and, uh,yeah, we're all put on, uh, earth, I think for some kind of purpose and, youknow, quieting down the soul, deep breathing exercises, kind of connecting to, you know, ourselves and finding that purpose, uh, is really important. When I talk to the homeless shelter, I tell 'em, uh, what I call the full glass theory. And they, they have this glass as we all do, and their glass, you know, in a homeless shelter can be, you know, full of a lot of dark, you know, garbage. And I tell 'em, you know, frankly, I'm not that interested in your garbage, you know, you can share that with somebody some by the time, but you, what I'm talking about are solutions and by creating a legacy by picking those things that we are here, that, that resonate with us to create a purpose for our lives. 

Speaker 3 (16:42): 

As we pour in those daily habits of building our legacyand doing things that are good, the bad stuff, naturally displaces, we don'thave to worry about it. It will naturally go away at, we keep pouring ins new, healthy habits, new, healthy, uh, ideas, um, exercising, reading books at the library, all these things that are actually don't cost a dime, but are very, very powerful at kind of, you know, putting our, getting our lives back on track. Uh, that's kind of the way I look at it and ultimately, yeah. Um, the, the whole experience is to thrive and, and do what we're really cut out for, uh, in some, some healed state. That's not to say that once we are there, that I say throughout the book a hundred times, probably that's rinse and repeat, you do revisit, uh, flashes of anger, you visit moments of depression, but overall the trench should be upward and onward. And that's what it's all about. We don't forget about the trauma, but we get through it and we get through it by, by dealing with it in healthy ways. 

Speaker 4 (17:42): 

You know, one of the things I talk a lot about on thispodcast and, and, you know, my, my clients, um, you know, they find their wayto me because I, I'm not a, I'm not a proponent of letting someone stay stuck in their victimhood, um, because your victimhood makes you a hero to someone else. You know, you living through your experience becomes something that can help someone else. And so I, I totally concur with you that the trajectory has to be onward, even if there are moments of backwards, 

Speaker 3 (18:15): 

Completely agree. You know, I, I just was, uh, I had a AAAguy at my car with my car, cuz my battery died on one of my spare cars. Uh,and, uh, and, and as we sat there for 20 minutes waiting for it to charge, he was, he was me to a tattoo artist and he, he, uh, apparently, uh, you know, she, she did a lot of her work on him. and I was kinda curious about, you know, what, what the meaning and significance was because his, uh, his tattoos are really colorful and, and intriguing. And I said, you know, I've been thinking about having a tattoo on my, to cover up my surgery from heart surgery. And he looked at me, he says, why would you wanna cover it up? That's part of your story. Uh, you know, just embrace it, you know? 

Speaker 3 (18:57): 

And, uh, and I, you know, that's, you know, we try one ofthe biggest problems we have is we try to bury this stuff and not talk aboutit, which is what, at least my parents talk me, you know, you know, don't, we don't talk about that. That's nonsense. That's a, by talking about it, we heal and we become authentic and I've seen it over and over again. When people open up find that trusted person sit in the fire, have those difficult, uh, uh, conversations, uh, they heal from stuff that they balled up inside for decades. And it's a really a miraculous thing to see, uh, the transformation by, by that will step alone. 

Speaker 4 (19:32): 

Exactly. And that, and that's exactly what we're kind oftouching on earlier is that the story spoken is the path to healing. And Ithink that you brought up a good point that you, you know, not everybody needs to be in the center of your target. Some people are just not safe to talk to. Um, you know, we all have that relative or friend that just ends up yelling at us about it somehow , you know? Yeah. And, uh, or, or not holding a safe space. And so that's where I do think that somebody trained can be good and sometimes, you know, just your average shop, I think can be a great, great space, you know, especially, um, older people that have been through so much in their lives. Uh, some of them, you know, on, on the planet today have lived through world wars, et cetera, um, in talking about, and kind of switching gears here and just spending a little bit of time talking about when we think of disaster, right. We think of, uh, tsunami hurricane an earthquake guest, uh, Sandy hook kind of situation, uh, nine 11, but truly on some level, this is what I'm, as far as, uh, just humans on the globe and how they're kind of handling this and how maybe it's spurred other traumatic or tragic events, you know, how it's linked to various different things we're seeing with crime, et cetera. 

Speaker 3 (20:44): 

Yeah. There, there's so many things going on in the world.The problem is back in the day, you know, when television was more limited, andI remember those days, you know, we weren't, uh, retraumatized or traumatized by watching TV and things that were going on on the side of the world. Now we have all this trauma from all over the world being, you know, coming right into our living room. And, and that can be a problem. I think, uh, one of the solutions frankly, is to kinda limit your intake of secondary trauma and other people's trauma, uh, and, and be aware of ourselves and maybe turn off the TV when it becomes overwhelming. Obviously the whole world's traumatized by this COVID thing, but what's amazing. You know, I worked on this book for 10 years and, and COVID was even a thing. And then the book happened to come out when COVID came out. 

Speaker 3 (21:30): 

That was just a, a weird coincidence. But the thing is, isthat whether it be a chronic trauma or an acute trauma, or COVID, the, thesolutions are basically common denominators to all three. And the solutions are like what we're talking about, sitting in the fire, uh, deep breathing exercises, uh, experimentation with different hobbies or interests. Uh, and there's a whole, you know, pattern of self care. We can, we can go through, uh, the fundamental stay fundamental. Our, my, my particular, uh, profession, we deal on really large scale disasters and they get very, very complex. And we have a motto in my office that the more complex the case, the more we get back to basics. And so what we have these long complex conversations about, about trauma really, to practically heal from them, we gotta accept the fact, we gotta get back to the basics because they really work, 

Speaker 4 (22:27): 

Oh my goodness. I, us so much for a number of reasons, um,you know, uh, people that kind of follow this podcast or follow me on socialmedia or whatnot, they know that when they come into my space, um, it's gonna be very simple. It's gonna be very basic. I'm not gonna buy into the chaos and all of the, um, kind of fear perpetuation that goes on, because if not immediately in front of me, there's really not much that I can control within it. And there's really no sense in wasting that space. Um, so, you know, I'm a big, I'm a big proponent of mitigating risk, but I'm not a big proponent of mitigating risk that might not ever happen. Right. yeah. So, so I love what you said there, and, um, you, you know, where I live in a, in a rural area in the Sierra Nevadas, um, what we don't, you know, we don't, we're not really affected by a lot of what you kind of refer to as the secondary trauma. 

Speaker 4 (23:22): 

We, we aren't. Um, and that's a beautiful thing. I thinkthat we have created worlds where we can reach the very broad corners and to beedges of places that maybe humans weren't supposed to travel, maybe we are supposed to, and I don't mean as in quit traveling and don't enjoy the world, but I mean, you know, spend time in your community, spend time being present, spend time with what's directly in front of you. And I think one of the ways, uh, secondary trauma becomes such a problem is that people feel helpless. And so bring it in closer to home. How can you help your local community? What can you do to get involved to where you're feeling like you're offering something thoughts on that? 

Speaker 3 (24:02): 

I, I think, uh, that's brilliant because, because we can'tsolve the world's problems and, and, you know, I'm working on these horrificcases that are overwhelming. And oftentimes the damages which we calculate in my, in my firm are in the billions of dollars. And, and you, you can have a sense of being overwhelmed and, and I can't solve, and nobody can solve, you know, uh, more our scale problems like that. All we can do is work through 'em and do the best we can. But what I can do is when I'm at the gas station, I can buy a, a sandwich for the homeless guy. You know, what I can do is I see somebody who looks like they're lonely, maybe go see if they wanna talk to someone, be a friend. And, and I don't even have to be the answers I can simply listen, uh, that might help them out. You know, there's a number of things we can do all day long, maybe at the cash register, uh, at the grocery store. I can, uh, more than go through the routine. Hi, how you doing? Thank you. Goodbye thing. And maybe say something interesting to brighten up this person's moment for, you know, uh, a minute while we're together, uh, at the cash register, there's little, the things we can do all day long that, um, that can make a difference. Yeah, we can't handle everything, but we can do, we can do something, you 

Speaker 4 (25:15): 

Know, these fires that are, that are going throughoutCalifornia, where I live, you know, one of 'em obliterated an entire communitypeople. Oh, what, you know, they feel helpless with these big fires. There's nothing I can do. I'm not a firefighter. I'm not this or that. Well, you, you can, you know, you can cook some food and bring it down to where the firefighters are stationed as example, you know, or, and obviously these days are sorts of rules on food prep and stuff, but that, that simply taking a step further. I'm good too. And actually ask someone, what's the part of, what's the best thing in your life today. 

Speaker 3 (25:49): 

Yeah. And, and yeah. And getting involved with thecommunity. I love that concept. You brought up a moment ago, cuz in, in ouroffice, there's a homeless shelter in town, uh, down the street. Um, and once a month, our office gets together in the kitchen here in the offices and we prepare a nice, a really high quality, nice dinner are for our friends who are homeless and we take it down and we not just drop it off. We, we visit, we, you know, that's a part of the that's part of the, the help is just, you know, saying hello and, and visiting with people and getting to know 'em the best we can with COVID that's been a little, uh, strained, uh, as terms of all that. But, but there's certain things, things anybody can do to reach out and make everything better. And that's frankly really important for trauma recovery is to get kind of beyond ourselves, look to something bigger than ourselves, humanity, uh, and, and others around us, people in society that are marginalized when we start, you know, looking for and looking for opportunities to help those people that is, uh, actually inadvertently helps us with our trauma recovery. 

Speaker 3 (26:52): 

Speaker 4 (26:52): 

It's interesting. This balance, isn't it between and whoais me. like, um, it, it's, it's interesting to say, like I can bein my pain and I can also not be in my pain. I can be both. I, I can be both of these things. 

Speaker 3 (27:08): 

Yeah, that's true. And no matter how low we go withwhatever trauma we've, we've experienced, there's, there's always somebody thatwe can still help that may, you know, in some respect or another may, may be in a more difficult place. And that I've notice going back to an earlier comment that you said that really resonated with me is that when you go through trauma, you, you develop a new empathy for others and reaching out to those others, sharing your story. Uh, your trauma can actually be very beneficial. I was, I was out on the board of directors with, uh, the Nicole Brown Simpson charitable foundation and, you know, with Denise Brown and, and the loss of her sister, Nicole, and she put a lot of energy into educating women who were in these battered, you know, uh, uh, spousal abuse, uh, situations, which are obviously very ugly. And I can't tell you how many people came up to her and thanked her profusely for the education she provided and the courage to get out out of these toxic relationships. So as horrible as it was for Denise to lose her sister, um, she did something really positive about it and that's something that's really inspiring as we kinda all work through, you know, our traumas. 

Speaker 4 (28:19): 

And I, I think to your point, you know, people often thinkthat you have to be a celebrity to make a difference, or you have to be this orthat, you know, just, just being friendly to your neighbor can be enough because you don't know what your neighbor has going on. You know, ju just, just reaching out in that way can make a huge difference in someone's life. 

Speaker 3 (28:39): 

Absolutely. Right. And yeah, Denise remember was not, shewas unknown. Nobody knew her until that. And, uh, and she didn't squander thelimelight in the energies she did, but you're right. A, a lot of things we can do, um, for our neighbors, for the homeless shelter down the street for the inmates who are incarcerated for, you know, uh, all kinds of opportunities all around us. Um, I, if we pick what's right for us and, and lend helping hand, we're actually helping ourselves in, in, in the process. 

Speaker 4 (29:11): 

Well, and I think one of the things that we think about, Imean is that we have to go to the person who's hurting the most. And I, and Ithink that is maybe even a misguided belief, um, you know, cuz the mom of three kids who seems to have it all together might be the person in your life that you can help the most, you know, it may not appear it. And I think that's, I think that's something important too. You know, it doesn't have the person who appears to have the biggest tragedy going on. 

Speaker 3 (29:44): 

Well, yeah, exactly. It can just be a kid who feels lonelyon the playground. It can be, it can be the next door neighbor. It can be thecash register, the grocery market there's opportunities all around us and or it may be the person who's, uh, over the top happy, but they're really that to mask a lot of pain, it can be anyone. And uh, that's why we shouldn't judge and, and be there for any, you know, wherever, you know, we connect with somebody that we can help. Right. 

Speaker 4 (30:11): 

Hey, one of the things I really just wanna touch onbecause I, I, I feel this intensely and I, and I know others that I kind oftalked to about these sorts of things due to, you know, tragedy, everybody comes together and then within a month or two there's something else bigger and better on the news that people are kind of, it it's forgotten. It's, it's gone, it's out of people's mindset. Um, what do you experience with the people who are in this process and how can maybe people who are listening, um, become actively involved in a way where, you know, these, that we do somehow kind of follow up or check in after the fact when things have died down and the emergency response is kind of gone, 

Speaker 3 (30:54): 

You know, it's so interesting. You asked that because, uh,uh, right now at this time I'm working on the, uh, case in Houston where thepeople's homes were flooded hurricane. Uh, yes. Uh, well I worked on hurricane Katrina, but hurricane Harvey and yes, after the news cycle, let me tell you, uh, you know, we switched a channel and we're thinking about something else. And to this day there are people that have still not rebuilt their homes. Um, and, and so I think what you you're getting at is how do I be there long term authentically for as long as it takes for this person to go through a trauma and you know, a quick pat on the back and you're off, isn't gonna do it or saying to, to a soldier, I appreciate service. What might be better is sitting down with that soldier and really listening to their story and sticking with them as they kind of process through horrific things that they went through. So having that long term, I'm here for you, um, you know, authentically and however it longs to heal is a really important perspective. 

Speaker 4 (31:57): 

Gosh, you know, as we're talking, I'm just thinking, thisis how my mind works. I'm always creating stuff. I have a nonprofit that is,um, you know, actively involved with kids and things like that. But I, but I think as I'm, as you're talking, I'm thinking why isn't there. And maybe there is a pen pal situation for trauma people where, you know, like, Hey, do you want to, do you wanna provide a lending ear to someone who lost their home in hurricane Harvey and connecting people in this way or something? Gosh, wouldn't that be amazing? 

Speaker 3 (32:28): 

That's a great idea. Yeah. Um, 

Speaker 4 (32:30): 

Maybe I'll start it.  go. Maybe I'll start itthrough the BU find happy podcast, a BU find happy pen pal 

Speaker 3 (32:39): 

yeah, there you go. I, 

Speaker 4 (32:42): 

That needs to happen. Like, you know, like, uh, thefamilies of the 13 soldiers or the families of hurricane Katrina, the familiesof hurricane or of, uh, Sandy hook or whatever, like match someone up that they can have that ear. Gosh, wouldn't that be great? 

Speaker 3 (32:57): 

Yeah, because people need more, more than, you know, the,the, the people that provide the blankets and the food and, and all of that,that's, that's so important and, and, uh, and obvious, but people, you know, that, but you know, helping out in that way, isn't for everyone, but maybe writing a pen, having a pen pal from somebody who's been through something like that or, or something to make sure we cover all the base, whether it's financial or physical or emotional or spiritual, whatever it is, uh, you know, contributing in, in one of those ways that that's, that's really terrific. 

Speaker 4 (33:29): 

That's just, it, I'm starting a BU find happy pen pal there you go. I'm, I'm starting it for, for people that have hada, you know, survived a tragedy and, and are looking for someone to be able to talk to in the long term, gosh, that's happening. We're doing that. perfect. I love it. Yeah. Thanks for coming on and inspiring a whole new thing that I, that is now gonna, you know, take some of the time that I Absolut do not have 

Speaker 3 (33:54): 

All the credit I, uh, but I, I was here to it. 

Speaker 4 (33:59): 

Oh, listen. And, um, how can people learn about your newbook and kind of, um, learn about these awesome 15 suggestions that you havefor, you know, just even everyday life. How can people find you? 

Speaker 3 (34:11): 

Well, I'm at Dr. I'm easy to find. I L I lovethe conversation. I love hearing from people who have read the book, uh, and, andhave found it health full. Um, my, uh, so that's how people find me the books everywhere. It's on Amazon posttraumatic, thriving it's at every bookstore. Um, we're about to come out with a hardbound version and also do the, uh, audio book, but it it's, uh, the paperbacks everywhere right now. 

Speaker 4 (34:36): 

And, uh, for those of you that are listening and maybethinking, gosh, you know, I haven't been one of these tragedies that they'retalking about. Remember that tragedy comes in all shapes forms and sizes. And, um, your story is, is just as tragic to you. So, so don't hesitate to pick up the book and Dr. Bell, thank you so much for coming on the BU find happy podcast. And I look forward to seeing all of the stuff that continues to come out from your life experience. I 

Speaker 3 (35:01): 

Appreciate the invite and I, I love your idea. I'm gonna,I'm gonna be, uh, watching for your pen.  

Speaker 4 (35:09): 

You have a great day. Take care.